As an atheist I'm probably going to see this fim just to support movies with a non-religious (I WISH we had a real mainstream anti-religion film) bent to them, in order to ensure more such films get made.

I am really sick and tired of pandering to the foibles and insecurities of religious people. You can respect and fight to protect people's right to believe in whatever fairy tale or myth they want to without having to respect the complete and utter fantasy and stupidity of their beliefs.

As atheists in the US, we are pretty much one of the most reviled groups around in this this country (the stats actually show this), and yet religious conservatives try to portray themselves as a persecuted group when they are comfortably and easily the majority here? Please.

These are the same people that think there is a "War on Christmas". I'm not going to respect the beliefs of people that are manifestly divorced from reality, and I am sick of how the media panders to them. I wish we had more films like this to show how religion can be a negative force in society. Maybe it would be a good thing for society.

This movie looks cool, and I'll probably go read the books because of it, and because of the controversy. If a religion does horrible things, it doesn't somehow get a free pass because it is merely a religion. Believing in the patently ridiculous is not a get-out-of-jail-free-card. 

Admittedly, I'm speaking out of ignorance of the movie itself too, having only heard and read online of the plot and debate. But I have to say I am getting really sick of religious conservatives shoving their privilege out there like this. 

Eventually one of the religious conservatives is going to actually read the books and realize there are gay angels in the third...Should be fun!

WHAT DO KIDS HAVE TO DO WITH IT? Just becouse the story centers around a young child that dose not automaticly mean its a book for children. Thats like saying "The Ring" which too is about a young child is a movie for children. No. The Golden Compass is a series for teens and up not children.

ANIME suffers from this just because its a cartoon it's automaticly asummed by most americans that it is for kids because all cartoons are for kids right? So eventhough ANIME Films make millions of dollars in theaters worldwide they go stright to DVD here in the US. - A R-Rated Cartoon? No child will see that! - Idiots its not for children thats why it's rated R!!

I think for the most part people lie to themselfs and others when they say that they believe in something when most likey they truely do not I mean how can you believe in somthing proven not to exist? it's just silly.

-Nathiest

When I read these books when I was younger (and a devout Catholic), I really didn't have any problems with them on a religious level. My interpretation was that the narrative was more concerned with the misuse / abuse of *any* authority: while religious authority (specifically the equivalent of Catholicism) tends to embody that pretty well in the novels, scientific authority is no more reliable. While the first book, at least, makes it seem like science / reason will triumph, it's just as liable to abuse (i.e. Lord Asriel).

I've read all three books and was engrossed right up until almost the end. I saw the movie last night and enjoyed it. Mostly for the visuals. It's a fun experience. I wish they'd have kept it the way the books portray it, rather than having some "Magisterium".

I've often wanted to holler at the people protesting Harry Potter and tell them to read His Dark Materials instead. heh. At least there's a tangible (in my opinion) reason for them to protest it. Not being a fan of religious fundamentalism, I enjoy a little tweaking.

I also missed the religion in Narnia and A Wrinkle in Time, but it's hard to miss with these books. When he quotes the bible and talks about the church, it's a bit hard not to notice.

And in shallow news, Nicole Kidman and Eva Green look amazing.

Ace, you don't have to worry about missing the anti-religious subtext in this book, I also missed the points of Wrinkle in Time, and Narnia, but the atheism in this book just kind of jumped out at me. I can remember not liking a few things in the book, but the atheism wasn't one of them, in fact I am extremely disappointed that they cut it out of the movie (stupid ratings board has 2 priests on it!). Perhaps they'll put it back in a special edition directors cut.

----

http://noclafsaerie.blogspot.com/

Honestly I haven't read the book or seen the movie yet myself (though I do own the trilogy as a book I got recently) but I do find it pretty ignorant that the book and film are being treated this way. Really what is wrong with letting our kids decide for themselves just what they believe? It's something I truly miss about 80s fantasy flicks compared to today's. There was a sense of wonder and benefit of the doubt that a kid could understand what they were looking at on a level that wasn't insulting ot their intelligence or sheilding them from reality. Too much about our culture is about trying ot shelter outr kids and limit their ability to dream of the fantastic, it was such a big part of my childhood in the 80s and 90s that i find it repugnant that so many kids shows and films demean and talk down to kids today. Harry Potter was sight for sore eyes let me tell you!

Why are we so terrified that our kids will have a mind of their own and a personailty we didn't mold ourselves? I've got a 16 year old sister and brother in law that is 18. I have seen what these limited views can bring out in kids. They just aren't taking their personal lives an integrity seriously, and I think it really is the fact they were the first of the kids to be raised on conservative values and limited dreams. I find it so frustrating to try to communicate to them what they miss by overlooking the value of dreams and imagination over a narrower view of the world. This blind overprotective parenting (and most directly religious control) needs to stop, you don't give a kid morals by making him follow them, he learns it through making his own mistakes, if these kids can't even decide what they can entertain themselves with (within reason of course) how will they develope the coping skills they need to develope as a person?

I'm not an atheist, but I have no problems with atheist movies or books. I'm of the opinion that both sides of an issuie should be presented and then an indvidual can make up their own mind on what they think is right. However, I find it odd that the producers would make a movie based on these novels and then remove the very thing that makes it unique. I mean, I can understand why they are doing it; its being marketed towards kids and alot of parents may not want to take their children to a movie they feel is anti-religion so close to the Christmas holiday. But then why make the movie at all? If your going to make a movie based on a novel, you should be faithful to it, not create a waterdowned version of it. Otherwise what's the point. Of course this is Hollywood we are taling about; look at what they did to the Dark is Rising.

I saw the movie last night and it was bad.  The thing about the Golden Compass is that it is so disjointed and convoluted that in every scene I asked myself, "What the hell is going on?"  It made no sense.  The characters lack motivation for their actions, there is so much exposition that I felt the movie talked at me, and the movie had no end (that really bothers me).  The only aspect I liked about the movie was evil Nicole Kidman. She rocks.

 I do agree with Sibyl.  The movie speaks to the misuse and abuse of power more than a particular religion.  It probably is different in the books, but my take on the movie is that the main character is fighting against a totalitarian government rather than a religion.

Save your money, don't see it.

These books are all about religion vs free will in coming of age. It's the underlying theme and the entire point. To try to make these movies without the religious aspect is like trying to make Star Wars without the Empire or the space travel. It makes no sense as a concept, I don't care how realistic you can make your CGI polar bears.

Having said that, my sister (who loves the books possibly more than Harry Potter, and feels the same about the religious aspect as I do) did enjoy it, though she said it left out a ton of backstory so you'd need to have read the books to properly understand what's going on. And she's worried about where the second two are going. Which is my concern too -- Northern Lights is readable as an individual book without *too* much of religious aspect, but the second two are allllll about it. I just don't see how they can make the films they seem to want to make from the books they've chosen to base them on.

fact #1: Phillip Pullman wrote His Dark Materials as a response to CS Lewis' Chronicles of Narnia.

Fact #2: Where Aslan represents God/Jesus/The Way/The Light/The Truth, and is the voice of wisdom, guidance, and ultimate deliverance in Narnia, Lyra represents the destroyer of totalitarianism and absolutism, and in that way represents the light, the truth of Phillip Pullman's world.

Opinion #1: barring children from reading *anything* is fascist. Theoretically, this God that both Lewis and religious organizations admire, gave us free will - correct?

Opinion #2: The film is terrible. Please don't base any opinions one might have of the text, from the movie. I think there *are* many atheist referrences in the novel that were not in the movie, but alas - such is the intrest of ultimate Hollywood capitalism. Though the hype alone will sell tickets, to atheists and religious folk alike.

Kaytiana, re: not ending in the right place - I don't think that cinematically they could. I think they would have botched up the film more if they had ended where the book ends ... just my 2 bits.

And what’s he then that says I play the villain,
When this advice is free I give, and honest

The views of one person or even a large group does not reflect the entire community. Not all catholics support the boycott on the movie.
A division of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops wrote a review http://www.catholicnews.com/data/movies/07mv242.htm
The reviewer had good things to say about the movie, even opposing the protests by stating, "Will seeing this film inspire teens to read the books, which many have found problematic? Rather than banning the movie or books, parents might instead take the opportunity to talk through any thorny philosophical issues with their teens."
I'm annoyed by the assumption, shared by some churches and atheist, that a movie or a book can crack the foundations of someone's faith. I've read and seen plenty of things that are opposed to my way of thinking, I saw them as other people's opinions and discarded it or adapted it into my worldview. When there is irrefutable evidence that God does not exist then I'll change my outlook, otherwise, I'm not phased.

I saw the religious aspects of Madeline L'Engle's A Wrinkle in Time and her following books. I loved L'Engle's books because it showed that there doesn't have to be this great divide between religion and science.

I think the hostility between any group is ridiculous; especially in this case. We have the right to practice our faith or not have faith at all. What's so hard about letting each person make their own decisions and live their own lives? The idea that we can't coexist without insulting each other or trying to sway others from their misguided thinking ('cause we're proven to be so enlightened) is infuriating. Big news flash... people don't think like you, and they don't have to. If you feel your rights are being infringed, take it to the courts. Otherwise, mind your own business.

Hollywood has been butchering books since its beginnings. I'm not surprised or offended by this case. If Hollywood does come out with a film based on a book, I'll forgo seeing the film and just read the book. I use Hollywood to introduce me to books I wouldn't have considered reading.

is what its all about.

Ok so Im going to geek out a bit. Okay,The whole series is about Lyra's , the main character, fall from innocence. The three books follow simply that. And although the first of the series is my favorite, it is not nearly the most religious, it is the least actually. The religious content builds through the trilogy until it all comes together in the final book. I heard they plan to not cut out the religious context in the next two movies..(not that I really think they could, if youve read the books you know what im talking about) I also heard about where they ended it..and while I wont say where, I will say in my opinion that was a raelly stupid idea. The ending of the book is so good, climactic, and edge of your seat, ending it before there so it is "less upsetting and nicer" is just rediculous. Also, I dont understand if we know the "Magisterium" means the church, and the religious conservative know the "Magisterium" means the church..why not just call it the church?

The Golden Compass is my favorite book of all time. His Dark Materials (the trilogy) my favorite story. When first heard they were making it into a movie, a few years ago, i was not excited. I have been against the movie since I heard about it simply because I dont quite see how they could capture the depth and spirit of not only the story, but the characters themselves. Even the idea of them trying to cast Lyra made me nervous. But since seeing previous, with my love of this story, my curiousity is growing. I am tempted to see it, but I doubt I will anytime soon.

so I will stop my rant. but just to a comment posted earlier, the books are in the young adult genre..so id say that applies to kids just as much as adults. Whats so great about the books is the older and or the more times you read them, the more you subtle details you notice.

on a more contemplative note: if youre a straight girl you have a male daemon, and vise versa,if youre a gay girl you have a female daemon and vise versa, what about if youre bi? :)

Is atheism a prohited cult in the US? Hrumph...

The Catholic League hates it? I must see it. I suspect the arrogance of organisations like Catholic League is EXACTLY what Phillip Pullman( the author ) was dead against.

I plan to see it, even though I hear the story telling is a little messy. WHat I saw of the trailer, I'm going to enjoy the magical animals and landscapes. And for those of you who are fans of the book, Phillip Pullman talks about why the movie ends before the end of the book in an article he wrote. He suggests that ending where it did is more understandable for those who haven't read the books. And that the ending will be explored in the next film.

I remember when I was a kid and hating on the Chronicles of Narnia because of the idea of religion. But I did like the BBC version of the film.

I've read the Golden Compass and the other 2 but I do love the movie. I'm a sucker for a cute polar bears and kitty cats on the big screen. The idustry always butchers book to film releases. Common fact but I went in not reading in too deep in the film. It was a fun ole time to be had.

I haven't seen the movie yet but particularly when it comes to religion it is important to stir a controversy here and there- which happens very rarely. Pullman primarily critiques the institution called church. An institution under whose auspices some of the most horrific crimes have been committed and which introduced the word hypocrisy and double standards into our vocabulary. Particularly the catholic church did a fine job, considering that until the 14th century it derived its income from taxing prostitution, refused to translate the bible from Latin so that peasants could not read it themselves, etc.  Not to forget the overwhelming power exercised by religion: because it is something so essentially intimate and cannot be discussed in any 'objective' sense. Because of this very character I find it important to ask questions and debate the value of religion at least as an intellectual exercise. The adaptation of the book obviously fails to do so, but yet, it still manages to cause a debate. And I believe it is a very very healthy one, regardless of whether one follows a particular religion or not, whether one rejects the institution of church but believes in God, whether one is an agnostic, atheist, nihilist-doesn't matter. However, raising kids in ignorance having them believe that the church is the absolute epitome of innocence and holiness without at least mentioning its darker past and present  is an act of simple, dare I say –brainwashing?  That's the real 'crime' and that should drive people nuts. Not the fact that somebody rejects a man-made institution and denies its Godliness. After all, we all believe in the freedom of speech because it allows us  to question truths that have been taken for granted. Sorry for the long post. What I wanted to say is- bring it on! More debate! More movies, more Pullman adaptations. Particularly on the institution called ‘church’. Offended Catholics should rather engage in the debate than putting books off shelves-maybe burn them next time-wouldn’t be the first time.

I think the problem in the US is first: When does ANYONE actually make a movie that follows the book exactly like it was written, second: what book that is written well and has very good points doesn't have a strong religous or political view to piss someone off and third: When hasn't any religion group every NOT been offended by any movie that protrays them as the bad guy! I haven't seen the book or the movie but this is the same thing that happens to all movies, especially kid movies. Everyone wants to be the good guy and not seen as anything else. Alot of people forget about freedoms that we have and WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD YOU TAKE A MOVIE WITH TALKING ANIMALS SERIOUSLY!!!! Noone looks to a talking animal for religion!!! And the people who teach children through talking animals are stupid!!! So, I wish in one of these interviews with any religous person who is mad at this movie is asked "It has a talking polar bear in it why are you taking this movie seriously?" and then follows with "Do you have a talking POLAR BEAR teaching at your church?" and then ends with "Why would you teach your child TO LISTEN TO A TALKING POLAR BEAR!!!???"

So, in my opinion this argument is stupid!! There has to be something else of greater importance to address. Like starving children across the world!!!!

Thanks Jk.. I know i shouldnt see it. And it will just make me mad if I do see it. I think I just need to reread the books over my break..maybe that'll get the new temptation of seeing the movie out of my system.

It is definatly influenced by Paradise Lost, if you look in the first book, after the title page Pullman quotes Paradise Lost:

"Into this wild abyss, The womb of nature and perhaps her grave, Of neither sea, nor shore, nor air, nor fire, But all these in their pregnant causes mixed Confusedly, and which thus must ever fight, Unless the almighty maker them ordain His dark materials to creat more worlds, Into this wild abyss the wary fiend Stood on the brink of hell and looked a while, Pondering his voyage..."

And I am also not religious, but intrigued by religion. This book, though it did not hook me because of the religious undercurrent, has definalty made me a bigger fan. His Dark Materials is a story, but a fantastic and intriguing one at that.

Also a question to notshane, you mentioned an interview with pullman, I was wondering if you could post the link? Id love to read it. thanks.

His Dark Materials is not exactly an atheistic trilogy, I always saw it as being more about independent thought and inquiry and more against the institutuion of religion as opposed to faith itself.

The religion in the books (more specifically in The Amber Spyglass) is very obvious, it's hard to miss. I missed the religion in Narnia for most of my childhood, but I never missed it in the His Dark Materials trilogy.

In the movie the religious aspect is nonexistant. You can barely see it if you're looking for it, but honestly, it's not there. Yet, the groups are up in arms and protesting without having seen it. I am not religious. I consider myself to be agnostic, and I have many atheist friends, but we didn't go out and protest and complain when Narnia came out despite the fact that it is very obvously a Christian film. We even we went to see it. And we enjoyed it. DESPITE the religious undertones. I think that says a lot.

I read the three books in a few weeks frenzy a few years back and loved them. I loved the way it made you think, and while it is against organised religion, it gets away with it as it is an alternate universes story.

I was excited about a film, but really shouldn't have expected too much. They dumbed it down quite a bit, having a clunky opening where they explain everything. OK, so it was a bit confusing at times in the books what dust was or what a daemon was, but the film is so clearly aimed at a young audience.

So often, good children's books made into film lead children away from the books. I'm a teacher and I remember when the Harry Potter books first came out, my class actually READ them. Now they see the films but don't read, and I love the humour of the Potter books, which doesn't come across half as well in the films. Similarly, The Golden Compass (or Northern Lights as is was called here in the UK) is much much richer in plot and its use of language. I think it is often the case that if you love a book, you'll be disappointed by the film. I didn't hate the fim of The Golden Compass, I liked the production design and the casting was excellent, but it's been kiddie-fied!

I agree with JK Singer...this is really an American discussion! I saw the BBC review and they only discussed the cgi aspect. Which is exactly the reason I am not interested in the movie but this whole discussion sure got me interested in the books!

BTW..Nathiest...much as god has not been proven to exist, I am afraid it has not been disproven either! ;)

"call me old fashioned but I prefer feminism that leaves a little something to the imagination!"

And this is specifically aimed at the US readers...Do you get pissed-off when US publishing houses change the titles of books eg. Philosopher's Stone to Sorcerers stone, Northern Lights to Golden Compass, because they think you're not going to "get it", or do you not mind?

Remember, Ginger Rogers did everything Fred Astaire did, but backwards and in high heels.  ~Faith Whittlesey

the religious discussion is EXTREMELY obvious -- maybe not so much in the first one but the second two are filled with it. I just finished the third one and absolutely loved all three. I completely agree with some of the folks above me who talked about how the books are in fact really quite spiritual. Really it encourages free thought and what they describe in the book as the creation of the kingdom of heaven right here on earth. The Church in the book is shown as extremely power hungry and authoritarian while the God of the book is shown in much the same light. It is fiction -- obviously -- and anyone who does not believe in a wrathful God should not be taking these books too seriously. I don't understand why uber-religious individuals and organizations get so up in arms over fiction -- why should they be so scared? Do they think that if people think for themselves they will leave the faith? I hope they have more conviction in their religion than that!

I highly recommend the trilogy (although I'm surprised they are marketed as books for youth because the ideas are truly complex, even for me as a 22-year-old!).

Don't let the controversy frighten you away from these books -- even if you are religious yourself. I haven't read any of the articles about this issue, but I have a feeling that some stuff might be taken out of context. For example, the quote posted in this blog post from the ex-nun character, Mary Malone. She did stop believing in God and beliving in Science instead, but she still felt disconnected from the world. Eventually she realizes that everything really is connected and she is a part of something bigger, but she does not need God or the Church to make her feel it anymore.

Here is another quote from the 3rd book that I think sums up a lot of the philosophical elements that Pullman is trying to get across: "He meant the Kingdom was over, the Kingdom of Heaven, it was all finished. We shouldn't live as if it mattered more than this life in this world, because where we are is always the most important place." (Lyra)

Sarah in chicago,

i agree with you everything what you said. we need more movies that are open-minded and don't need all bs about religions on why they are very important. religions take away the freedom from people, and i notice that in many, many years people had to follow religions way, way back then before U.S. was found or had started the colony here or else they would be hanged. those people judge one other and hang people whatever they want instead of sit down and listen on why people have their own beliefs and respect different opinions. i don't respect people who shovel bs in people's throats with religion and punish them because they are atheists?? i would love to see more movies about atheists and anarchy and let people decide themselves what is best for themselves. to me, people especially the kids, should decide themselves what they believe in like evolution or creationism, atheist or christian, and so on instead of brainwash those people. no wonder why some people out there hates religions and use guns to kill people and do stupid things. i hope that in the future, there will be stop brainwashing, paranoid too much, whining too much from religion people and respect people's opinions. we have the first amendment that we have the right to say what we want and free from religion if we want to. in some ways, i see that religions, government and politics are using oppression methods to make us scare of them, but i'm not afraid of them because they are wrong to use oppression to say they are right and we are wrong? screw them. i'm sure i am not only one who would stand up to those idiot oppression people out there and fight for our freedom rights. I think we need to get rid of "in god we trust" and put in "u.s. constitution" or "freedom" for coins and dollars so it means we all are equal people and no oppression over anyone.

susie