Cherry Bomb: "Dating Someone in the Closet"

Im first!!!!! Having a bi girlfriend who still has a foot in the closet is annoying in the sense that i wish she'd just pull it out, but I'm thankful for how out she is with me especially where we live, but i agree that sometimes,being a big pda person,its a bummer when the one you love is still hesitant or frantically lookin around without actually being in the moment...

Party.Make-out.Sleep.Repeat

All of you ladies hit and highlight things to the T.  

Great,great episode.

I kind of agree w/ Gloria and Dalila.  As far as dating a closet case-um no.

I no longer live a lie.  I'm not even sure if I can tell a lie. It's a long story behind that.

I've done that and the results were very ugly and I'm still getting the tail end of it.  I hope soon that part of the journey will be over.  

Good job, ladies! 

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very interesting episode - nicely done, ladies. i would have liked a bit more discussion of the question of people who are out in every respect except to their families (though certainly it was dealt with to some extent)... i recently dated a woman who is proudly out at work and in the town she lives in, but feels she must (because her family is conservative and devout) hide herself from her family to avoid losing them. i'd dated a closet case before, but this one was particularly confusing... you think everything is going to be fine, especially since the family is far away and so hiding is easy, and then you realize that your gf, for all that she's out and proud daily, deep down hates herself because her family hates gays. this self-hatred and terror of losing her parents was a major reason for our breakup.

i'm not sure i have a point, except that i sympathize very much with gloria - there are very often very good reasons for people not to come out in certain situations; my ex is absolutely right in fearing that her family may reject her (at the very least, they will take it as a disaster, and throw god at her, as one lady put it). i guess what i'm trying to say is that it's such a difficult question, and i'm still trying to figure it out, 15 years out of coming out of the closet (and i'm out to everyone, even my own conservative extended family)... i would never give someone like my ex an ultimatum, but i'm still weighing whether or not i'd ever allow myself to get into such a situation again.

I understand what Gloria was saying, plus,  I'm not such a fan of pda myself, mostly because it's hard to be with another girl when you live in a small place and people are all over your life.

But then again, I'm out and I don't keep on watching all of my steps in front of people and worrying about the places I'm in, or how touching or hugging someone will be seen...I guess that dating someone who's in the closet it's just not an option anymore, to me. All the trouble...all the lies..and worries..not worth it.

I tend to sympathize most with Gloria's outlook.  While I would find it hard to be attracted to someone who isn't out - especially to her immediate family - I was only able to reach this outlook with age.  I sometimes feel that once "out," we often forget what life was like in the closet and our reasoning(s) for remaining in the closet.  I've been out to my classmates, friends, co-workers since I was 22. Yet, it took me until my mid-20s (25) to foster enough courage to sit my southern Italian parents down one day to tell them that their daughter (the one who wears "pretty dresses") was never going to marry a boy - not even a nice Italian one.  The initial fall-out wasn't easy, and it's often not a topic that is immediately broached while in their company.  Yet, while I agree that one must be truthful (above all to oneself) to live "authentically," I do recognize that we are all multi-faceted and being fully "out" may often remain very grey.  For example, I've never "officially" told my Nonni's (my grandparents) that I'm gay, and I assume they know, but I don't see the point in making it a point.  

i think most of us when we first fall we don't realize what were gettin' ourselves into. i think first time dating someone who is not in the closet and someone who is, is okay.i just think it's more of a common sense if someone who has dated women before and has more experience should know what they are gettin' themselves into if they're gonna date a person who clearly does identify with as being out or being fully lesbian. i think it goes for anybody gay, straight, bisexual, if you're gonna date someone or be intimate with them make it clear to them what you want instead being so confused towards the end...

As fir the whole PDA thing, i don't think it has a lot to do with being in the closet. i think it goes even for gay couples. i think it all depends on the environment, whether if its anti-gay or pro-gay there are some situations in life we can't control because of our surroundings. i think it's better to be safe at times, but if the person someone is with is having PDA issues over all then there is clearly something not clicking in that persons brain.. idk i just think people need to be honest even when they don't think they aren't being honest with themselves they should say that they are confused or un-comfortable.  

I don't feel comfortable comming out....although I'm not going to lie about who I am.  I'm at a place right now in which I don't think it would be too hard to figure out.

A lot of it does depend on where you live and where you work and what you do for a living.  Unfortunately, it just does. 

I live in a progressive city....and I still feel that way.

i understand the majority of the girls thoughts, but i just wish they would understand the pain and how difficult it is to be out of the closet.

im in the closet and believe me i want out, but i have to think of my mom, my dad, my family. its such a difficult situation. :((

so far being with people in secret is not so bad. then again im only 22. lol. 

right now, its the only way. And i dont mind dating someone in the closet. especially if their HOT! i'll do anything for a hot gal ;) hehe.....no problem for me.

no pda wouldn't bother me either. then again ive always been a private person. not just with relationships, but in general. so its no problem for me.. as long as the person is into me and giving me the "looks" ;) then im pleased.

I agree with Gloria on this one. I would not see it as a personal rejection if I were to date someone who was in the closet. My first girlfriend basically forced me to come out to my mom. To this day, I resent her for the crap she put me through. I believe everyone has to do what they think is best for themselves. If I'm with a woman who doesn't want to go around declaring her gayness to any one and everyone thats fine with me. Now granted just being around me may make her gay by default. Heh.

My one and only wrecking ball. And you're crashing through my walls. -Brandi Carlile

The thing is that I don't want to drag somebody out of the closet against their will or when they're not ready. But I equally don't want them dragging me into that closet. You know, some people are in the closet because they keep themselves there, almost like a state of mind.

It's not necessary to declare your gayness at work for example, but it's silly to be bothered that somebody from sees you holding hands or kissing at the mall with another woman. So what? What exactly are they going to do or what exactly are you doing that they're not doing?

I don't honestly care if the women that I meet are gay or straight or what in between. Or if they're in or out of the closet. All I'm interested is if they'll go into this thing with me and be true to it. And for that they'd have to be into this woman (at least) and out of the closet (cause, like Tatum, I'm so out, they couldn't pretend not to). What they did before and what they'll do after me is not for me to say.

I think that Dalila might have had a fair bit of wine by the time this episode was filmed, she was very loud, and definately having her voice heard, but I also found that meant not much time or room or willingness to look at other aspects of this topic.. and that was too bad.

 I have been out of the Closet for I guess about four years now, the same amount of time I have been with my now wife, who was also my first girlfriend.  I was in the closet when I met her, but once I met her and we started dating, I was so happy that I wanted to tell everyone, and soon I was more open and public with our relationship than she had ever been before.  But if she had not dated me, simply bc I was not out yet, had never had another lesbian relationship that wasnt experimental, and written me off as a newby with no real relationship potential, she would not be now married and pregnant and beeming with happiness. 

I wish you ladies had explored the other persons willingness to come out as a factor in whether or not you date them.  Ok they are in the closet, but are they willing to make steps to be out of that closet, or are they planning on staying parked there forever.  Because you may meet someone amazing who is in the closet, and if you write them off without so much as a chance, you could be missing out on the best relationship of your life.

I dont know maybe I am just that one urban myth come true... newly gay, young, winds up coming out of closet while with first gf, then gets married to my first gf, and lives happily ever after.  But I have another friend with the same story, about to get married to her first gf.  So, give the newbies a chance, we all had to come out of the closet at some point, how crappy did you feel if an amazing girl didn't look at you twice bc you were a newby not yet out?

Also, wish you woulda let your guest speak more this week, she was pretty awesome, but couldnt seem to get a word in with all the ranting.

First off, Mel was a great guest (and also clearly a great editor 'cause your show is awesome) she was funny, insightful all all the other things that make the fifth person on the couch interesting.

The topic was brilliant too, especially for me as my first girlfriend was in the closet. And I think I started off with Gloria's attitude, that it would be fine and just because she weren't declaring 'us', didn't mean that she was rejecting me in anyway. Long story short, I ended with Dalia's attitude, I could not deal with it, I discovered I am waaaay more into PDA than I realised and it was just a horrible situation in general that caused more arguments than I can even remember. The worst thing was that when she was finally (and I do mean FINALLY) ready to come out, our relationship had been damaged beyond all repair. So ladies, thank you for another episode of my favourite vlog that is Cherry Bomb :)

Wow, you scared me, Dalila! I don't take it personally, but this episode really tells me there's very little chance of dating for closeted people in the gay community. Except for Gloria, all the rest are pretty dismissive about those who don't declare to be gay, and I think this is a fair representation of the entire community. I can see the point of view, though, which surely comes from their frustrated and hurtful experiences with closeted people. I can only imagine, but in the very beginning stage of dating, it may be okay to be closeted. But as the relationship progresses, you just can't be in the closet. The question is whether you want this relationship so bad that you are willing to withstand all the adversaries/prejudices/awkwardness. I know two gay men who never come out or declare they are gay, but never hide the fact that they are together. Pretty impressive. They don't do PDA, though, except for naturally loving care for each other. Nice. They were not out when they met, mind you. Their relationship is kind of my ideal. I would like to meet someone in the closet or even questioning and develop from there, if EVER! 

Regardless, very good discussion, ladies. All of you express your opinions very well. 

It was interesting to hear everyone's comments this week about (mostly) not wanting to have to hide one's sexuality after last week's "gay all day" conversation, where I think everyone agreed that there are times and places to be closeted (or use discretion, which I don't necessarily think is the same thing), even if just for parts of the day/week...it feels kind of incongruent to me, I think in part because I am unsure as to what others mean when they say being "out" and in part because the issues of safety and security seem to come up in both issues...

--> I am interested in peoples' thoughts about what it means to be "out." How do other people define being out? What do others mean when they talk about "declaring" their sexual orientation?

For me, it is about not lying or hiding and not so much about the labels or declaring "I'm here, I'm queer" 24/7; labels tend not to fit some people very well anyway (especially in the lives of gender varient people and those who love us :) For me, being in the closet means being uncomfortable in my own skin and a self-perpetuating cycle of fear. I want to live life and not hide from it or live in constant fear; I just want to be. I have (recently) dated women who are/were closeted but were ready to make steps in moving out of the closet to varying degrees. I feel pretty comfortable supporting others in that process in there own time, but I won't allow myself to get sucked back in.

I love Dalila! she's so awesome.!

And well, I guess everybody is righ on their opinions. ..

Cool episode! I can't wait to next week :D 

... it is very rare for lesbians to come out especially to their parents.

relatively, it would be easy to come out to your closest friends, or the lesbian community around you, however, to be out and proud to your parents or to your co-workers is usually out of the question.

i'm a closeted lesbian and so is my girlfriend. although we live apart because of her studies abroad, we picture our future hopefully living together wiithin 3 years after she finishes her study. By then, i'd be in my late 30s, and my parents still cannot figure out why i am not interested in getting married and i'm so very sure they won't give up encouraging me to get married even then. all along, it would be too much daring and selfish to hurt my dear old folks by coming out.

it is so difficult to come out here where i live. the notion of 'i could have a queer child' has never occurred to my parents, just like most of the people in their 60s and 70s.

well, my girlfriend and i will thrive through our circumstances, try to minimise/avoid the shock both of our parents might encounter, yet we'll do our best to be together till the last day.

i want someone who is out and knows what they want in life..the last thing i need is someone leaving me just so she can live a normal life and meet others expectations..

i can relate with the holding hand story..it definitely sucks..she held hands in when she had  a bf but she doesnt hold my hand when we became a couple..m glad our relationship is over..

I have only had 2 serious relationships with women in my short 21 years, but my first relationship was a crush on a straight girl, who ended up not being straight. That has since ended because we just didn't fit together, but my fiance and second relationship was her having a crush on me.

I liked her and didn't really say anything because she was straight and I tend to hmm and haww about those kinds of crushes. little did I know, she liked me a whole lot back. We were both out of relationships and so neither of us wanted to make a move, it being too early to date somebody new. Once I found out she liked me, we started dating immediately and now we're engaged. 

I was somewhat in the closet when I first started dating girls, but that didn't last very long. My ex was in the closet for a good portion of our relationship and never really came out to her parents. it was an unsaid truth. that was difficult since my family knew and liked her. I don't think i'd date someone who was in the closet again because it would make me feel inadequate and insecure about their feelings for me. I'm one of those loud and proud type who doesnt ever want to feel ashamed for who i am ever again.

The constraint for not coming for 'some' people is more about a sense of shame of themsleves rather than the 'other'.. (who wants them to come out.. as is already out and proud themselves).  Sometimes people out of the closet forget how much those that are struggling in it really want out but.. for whatever reason.. just can't bring themselves to do it.

The reason for staying closeted for some isn't always down to a religious, family.. or where you live/or work fear either. Sometimes you have the freedom of all those elements in your life and its just the ..'self'.. one which can be as big barrier for some.. as the family, religion, work or country one is for others. 

I think most gay people would love to be out. But for some, they just can't be.. and it's not their fault that they're not as strong as those that are and can be. Closeted people can be viewed as selfish by those that are out.. but the need for self worth of the one out of the closet can be as selfish too! One has accepted themself and wants the same recognition off the other that can't even accept themself.. let alone another as well ! The 'pull out' and 'drag in' process is frustrating and draining for both sides. 

The only thing i would say is, if it does not compromise your personal security, try not to lie. 

After listening to the show and reading these really great comments I am left with no answers and one big questions. What is it to be out?  I am not predisposed to PDA and i only superficially discuss my private life in work.  When you come to a family gathering my mother will not have told people who you are and i probably wont declare it from atop a picnic table. But I will interact with you the same way as if you were my boyfriend and if uncle Herbert asks who you are I will tell him.Does that mean I am in the closet or out? 

And hey for all the people on Dalila's side of the argument... if Jodie, Katherine Moennig or Jillian Michaels were to come knocking... would you really send them away for not being Out enough?!  For some Not-In is Out enough... and maybe that's OK... afterall straights dont have to declare their heterosexuality.

I do agree the need to be who you are and expressing yourself. But for someone like me, living in the midwest and work with conservative folks, there's just no way for any PDA or coming out. I'm proud about who i am, i just don't take it to work or show it. Sometimes, it could be a life threatening situation where people just don't like the gay community. It's hard to be out and proud when people think it's abnormal to be gay. 

family is another thing. If it's going to kill them, might as well not tell them.

I do agree the need to be who you are and expressing yourself. But for someone like me, living in the midwest and work with conservative folks, there's just no way for any PDA or coming out. I'm proud about who i am, i just don't take it to work or show it. Sometimes, it could be a life threatening situation where people just don't like the gay community. It's hard to be out and proud when people think it's abnormal to be gay. 

family is another thing. If it's going to kill them, might as well not tell them.

 I listened to most of the comments, weighing as I listened the pros and cons to it all.  I cannot imagine anyone, out, partially out, partially hidden or deep in the closet that hasn't had to deal with the what "if's" of coming out. It is never simple and neither is the answer of whether to date someone in the closet.

I believe this point has already been voiced but its important to remember what it was like coming out for the first time. Some of us emerged gracefully but others had to put up with a lot of unpleasantries.  Major point, I would date someone that was not completely out of the closet...as long as it is not expected to be a permanent situation. I don't need all the PDA, the lets go have Thanksgiving dinner or whatever else it is that other people think they will miss so much. But that's just me. I don't need the approval of others to do what I want but at the same time I realize not everybody is at that stage in their lives.

Sapphire xoxo

Dating someone who is in the closset it's like you going back in to it ... just ended a six year relationship with a girl who was in the closet, the funny thing is that all our friends, her family, co-workers new the fack we where a gay couple ...

How ever she was so in the closet that it was so hard for us/ or for me to deal that she called me her rommy, that she did not wanted to meet my family - even when they already knew about her and acepted her.

oh boy, I'm reliafed that we are over and I'm over her too... I'm totaly out and feel free ... never going back on that road again.

The best episoid so far.

Thanks Guys.