I have to admit, with that cast I'm gonna have high hopes for this movie. Here in Europe it's gonna be a while until it's released over here, but I'll add it to my 'to do list' ;)

Heathens to the left of me, infidels to the right. Tremendous, next thing you'll be telling me you're not virgins!~Xena

to trish's part: also, i agree that a black woman playing a lesbian isn't that bad.... at all.

to sarah's part: yeah, more than just the white women should be getting roles in movies....

on a random side note-ish: too quote the character of Alex (kind of): "jada pinkett-smith is foiiiiiin." :).

why is it that lesbians in movies get androgynous names?? why bother.

purrito >' '<

The prominent Oscar-worthy lesbian role in The Color Purple was played by Whoopi Goldberg. Oprah played "Sofia" and she was straight.

haha i don't have anything serious to say I just thought it'd be cool and political to go "as a black woman myself"lmao

Sarah I agree with you 100% which is funny cause I agreed with Trish until about half way through your section.

I was watching the movie After Sex and noticed that the only lesbian in that movie was played by Zoe Saldana a Dominican actress (who is VERY commonly mistaken for black!) and her "love interest" was played by Mila Kunis whose Russian and I think falls into the "white" catagory somehow...I really don't understand how to catagorize "white" people since most "white" people seem to be something else entirely (Portugese, Italian, Russian, etc.)

It's almost like filmmakers try to kill two birds with one stone...they want their token black/hispanic character and they need their token gay character...so what do they do? Make them both the same damn person! Presto! You got it, instant bullshit!

Tegan Q.: I can't confirm or deny that Sara exist, I think the real question here is, does it matter? Feel me Sara huh? Feel it, snap!YEAH!...I mean if Sara exist, which she doesn't.

http://jusjay.blogspot.com

with Sarah. It's become ridiculously obvious that a woman of color is more than likely to play a lesbian in any cast. Though of all people, Jada is more than ready for a leading role, so I don't think is was fair to have her as a supporting character. But unfortunately, it is what it is. As a woman of color, it's rare to find a film where another woman of color is the lead role - not the villain, not the other woman, not some ridiculous stereotypical portrayal of them. Even in movies where women of color have lead roles, they are still portrayed stereotypically (i.e. Perry's Meet the Browns, and the character of Cheryl, played by Sofia Vergara).

It's a shame, but society has a long way to go.

Small steps better then no steps at all.

-Nathiest
the devil is in the details

With both of you. I mean, I see your point, Trish, and it's great, really.

But as a lesbian, color and most of all, woman, I cannot close my eyes to everything pointed by Sarah.

And, well, I think that the main problem is that we - woman in general - do almost nothing to change this situation. And we don't really know what to do about it.

It's like there are only five good roles for woman every year (so they can have the cathegory for the Oscars). The other roles are the stereotype show pointed by Sarah.

I try to support anyway I can things with great female influence, such as Buffy, Battlestar Galactica, Terminator...But the list is so small it hurts.

Well, I don't know, living is so hard, and sometimes we forget that we have to do something to make it a little easier to the ones that will come after us...  

About the fact that theses "token" lesbian characters are played by women of color at all. They could have been played by another white actress. Even if the are "the bad gals" At least they are trying to get into theses mostly white films to get their faces on the silver screen in flims written and directed to by white people so the next time maybe they will get top billing. Not to put politics into the conversation but like Barack said racisim still exsists and it's gonna be a long time before it is gone. At least the steps are being taken to curb it.

Not to take credit from amazing actresses like Hilary Swank and Charlize Theron but if the charcaters they played were played by women of color do you think that they would have gotten the critical acclaim that they got? I don't think so. 

And think about all the Oscar noms and wins that people have colored have recieved. They mostly were given to people who were playing characters that didn't really strech the realm of who people of color are as seen on your nightly news. Halle Berry , mother to kids whose father is put to death and the struggle of making it day to day. Denzel Washington, bad cop from the hood, Will Smith, father trying to take care of his son(which is rare to say the least) 

And as for Tyler Perry movies yes they are build on the same premise but the cast is mostly of color and I appericate seeing people who look like me have steady work in films and television.  And if that means watching people better thenselves and the people around them for two hours I'm gonna do it! It upsets me that I'm often ridiculed for even liking the movies in the first place.

I was involved in a Gay and Lesbian Movie film festival in Oklahoma for the last three years and the man who put it on would screen the movies that would be shown and as one of a few (like two or three) women in the room I would be VERY dissapointed in the selection of the films that would be shown. Most of them were films for gay men with a "token lesbian" in it and they were ususally white. I talk to the festival organizer and asked him why he had mostly movies aimed at gay men and his response was that "Lesbian don't go to the movies." I looked him dead in the face and said I don't know who was talking to a neilson but we do. In packs and if he bothered with the other 50% of the biliions gay and lesbians spend in the economy his festival would make more money.

I'm glad I wasn't the only to notice....at least on the commercials...that Longoria was the only woman of color on the commercial and she was being labeled the homewrecker.

Anyway....Jada is hot and I just MIGHT spent a small fourtune to go see the movie.

I don't look at color. When I watch a movie, I'm focused on the plot, the characters, etc. The only time I notice color is when it is specifically related to some element of those. My background (while not religiously diverse) was very colorful... from an early age. I, am white, did not have a friend who was white until I was 4. My playmates before that were two Japanese boys, one Hispanic girl, a black boy and girl and a Middle Eastern girl (not bad for rural Alabama, huh?)

Anyway, I realize that this a greater factor for others... but I think that is sort of the beauty of the contreversy in this movie. It seems to me that Trish is coming from the point of view that she would accept as a viewer, wheras Sarah seems to be looking more from the point of production, and why casting decisions were made.

I personally will approach this movie the same way I view every movie. With this level of contreversy... it automatically is an piece of art. I believe that art is its own life... that it has roles that were not destined and will be interpreted differently by each viewer.

There is not a shred of doubt in my mind though that this movie will likely be a step in the right direction (of an honestly equal opportunity hollywood)

Weren't all these mainstream films circling around lesbian/bi women who were white ? And I'm sure there are more. I just can't think of them right now.

By the way, Monster and Boys don't Cry had to be played by white women because they were biographical roles. It had nothing to do with being Oscar-worthy. These women(and I use that term loosely, for Brandon Teena was really a transgendered man and NOT a lesbian) were white in real life, so I am not sure I understand Sarah's point.

I personally find it very encouraging to see anybody(male and female) of color portrayed as gay or lesbian. Too often, the gay community is usually associated with white people. So, more power to Jada ! Furthermore, I would love to know what other movies Sarah is referring to when she says if there's a lesbian character, a woman of color is that character- other than the few she mentioned. Please tell me ! I'm desperate for some representation.

All the references to Whoopi Goldberg and her role in The Color Purple and how she was a lead BUT how it had to be a black woman playing that role because of the story of the family...immediately reminded me of one of my favorite movies...Boys on the Side.

A movie where one of the three leading characters...and I would say, the anchor character of the entire film...is a woman of color...who is a lesbian.

Let's face it, the roles for women in films that are big budget are small when the competition that makes quick big bucks are movies like Superbad.

Women have to be a certain skin color and age and hair color and dress size in order to guarantee themselves the best shot possible to get a role in a film that will get made by a studio.

And that is why I don't see many big budget movies and am a big fan of indepentent films and the web series that are being made.  I love the richness that they have to offer.

I'm totally feeling you. You have speaked my mind : "there's nothing wrong with Pinkett Smith playing a lesbian in The Women, but there is something wrong with the larger pattern this represents."

And after this : "But I'm really looking forward to the day I can look at a ensemble female cast in a mainstream movie, point to the one (or two) woman of color in it, and not guess correctly most of the time that she's the one playing the gay character. Even better? The day when there are actually more than only one or two women of color in the cast." I can only say AMEN !!

I'm sorry, I focused in on that comment, because this exact topic has been on my mind lately.  When I hate something, I hate it with unwavering malice, so it bothers me that I'm looking forward to "The Family that Preys" simply because it stars Sanaa Lathan in a super-hot affair driven plot (my personal favorite).  At the same time I loathe that I will have to sit through the likely religion-saturated ending where everyone learns a f$%^ing lesson.  People don't learn lessons Tyler Perry!  They repeat mistakes or they end up sad and alone! :) at least some of the time. 

Anyway, I totally feel you on being relegated to crap movies because women of color rarely take the lead in movies that aren't action or thriller types.  I would agree with Trish that it's kind of getting better- Eva was hired to be hot in my opinion as well- but not fast enough!

What is necessary is for one of these movies-not a Tyler Perry one, a good one- to do a stellar job marketing the movie so that it targets all women 18-45 and draws in that audience in droves.  Sometimes I feel like the Marketing teams narrow their scope to clear the demographic they think they can achieve and not only is that super lazy, it doesn't capitalize on what could be a story all people can relate to.  Most movies don't require a race, especially not popular ones because the point is that they be accessible to everyone.  I don't think we should dillute race into a non-issue, it belongs in some stories, but like I said many could be told through any woman's perspective.  I'm optimistic for the future.  As people recognize we're more alike than different they will respond accordingly-hopefully.

"Deep down, I'm pretty superficial"  -Ava Gardner

I might rent this flick when it comes out on DVD and knock back a shot for every stereotypical thing the characters say or do. From what I've seen during the previews, I'll be getting pretty drunk.

It's not just Pinkett's and Mendes's characters that are flat and stereotypical, even the straight white characters seem like that uptight, frumpy, neurotic, victim-y image we often get of suburban white women. How about one of these characters that is determined to have babies until she gives birth to a boy? Even better when the token lesbian replies, "Don't we have enough of those already?" Ooh, a two-fer!Two shots!

In all seriousness, the thing about these feel good movies is that they usually have very one-dimensional characters, and race is a part of that. Is your cast an otherwise stale group of white suburban women (because you wrote them that way)? Throw in a black lesbian to make marginally over-aggressive sexual comments for laughs! Need a sleezy (but totally hot) villan for one of the character's husbands to cheat with? Latina! Muy caliente! And make sure that the woman scorned is white, 40+, and wearing lots of floral sundresses!

Who writes this stuff, anyway? 

This dialogue has been going on for quite some time in regards to how people of color are potrayed in movies and TV.  When I was growing up, I was convinced that there was no such thing as a white prostitute, pimp, drug dealer or crackhead.  I watched a lot of TV as a kid. 

Things have definitely gotten a bit better, but the stereotypes are still way too prevalent in the media.

I agree with, both, Trish and Sarah.  More often than not, a supporting lesbian character will be played by a woman of color.  But, I still think that visibility is the key.  With visibilty comes awareness.  With awareness comes dialogue.  With dialogue comes change.

I found this really great interview with, one of my favorite actresses, CCH Pounder on Hulu.com.  She talks about moving from British Guyana to the states and the difference in the way she was treated when she spoke with her native Bristish accent as oppose to the urban accent she had to adopt to get work as an actress (all of those traditionally stereotypical African-American woman roles).  She said that she just made a conscious decision to not accept those types of roles anymore.  

For some annoying reason, hyperlinks are not working for me, so, here's the link to the interview.

http://www.hulu.com/watch/8967/celebrity-interviews-the-shield-cch-pounder-interview

"It's got what plants crave!  It's got electrolytes!"

First of all let me just say that they have likley butchered one of my favorite movies/plays of all time. Thanks for the topic.  I'm new and I registered just to comment on this article.

And second: Of course. I think it's much more complicated in this case though. It has to do more with White male priviledge in the social construction of marriage as the 'mainstream' (=White, middle and upper class) conceptualizes it.  It's that only innocent, trophy-type White women are worthy or credible of the 'victimized by a rich man who owes her something' status--that's really how the 'insider' characters can be classified. Generally speaking, no one in the 'mainstream' believes a White man owes a Woman of Color or working (lower-middle class and under) woman anything, least of all his fidelity. They still think those women there to be used (you're clearly a ho since you don't look or act like my wife!) or invisible (lesbian=irrelevant to White men. Unless you're hot and making out with another woman while he watches).

Third:Monster'sBall. Puhlease.  Even Halle Barry knew that wasn't her Oscar. And there is a whole list of reasons why she was the first Black leading female Oscar winner, not the gagillion other Black women who have slam-dunked much more challenging roles. Dig a little deeper into history and racial analysis or ask a (dark) Black feminist (or film actress) who keeps her clothes on to explain it to you.

And I thought of Boys on the Side too.

Finally: does it make anyone else mad that you pretty much have to read the book to know that Celie & Shug are lovers? Even then, some people deny it. I remember having to ask this straight boy, "So if it were a man  and a woman, what would you call it?"

But the one thing I can say is that lets not miss the point - these filmmakers are in this for the money, bottom line. They'll do what they think they'll need to do to make that money. Whether its write cheesy weak stereotypical characters, or cast a specific race/ethnic actor to get those seats filled.

This is the case for all genders, and all roles. If Halle Berry or Jennifer Lopez had been available, whoare pretty much the only women of color I've seen in anything that resembles a leading role in the majority of movies that are non-biographical that have been released in a long time, I'm pretty sure that they may have been cast in some of the other white leading roles in this movie - because they have historically been known to bring in the mullahs! Just like Will Smith, and Denzel Washington are able to get those non-race specific leading roles on the male side.

Its about the money - and since we still live in a racist society (evidenced even by the top sexy 100 list survey by afterellen itself) where women of colour are largely ignored by both the media, and a society that doesn't demand more diversity, we'll continue to see this sad phenomenon.

And I can't tell you what I think will make things change - perhaps the more we have people who can 'pass' such as Jennifer Beals on the L-word, the more we'll be more likely to see diversity in a movie..., and in that way, audiences will start to appreciate difference more, and although they won't necessarily demand it, will be indifferent to what that actor playing that leading role looked like, as long as they gave a powerful performance. I also think that I heard violins playing in the background, and unicorns flapping around when I made that last comment. Sadly, if it happens, its a long way off from being a reality!

Great piece, thanks for the discussion!

Love never loses its way home. Remember...its about the journey, not the destination

karamelk, Angie Bassett should've gotten the statue for the Tina Turner role. I still do not understand why this woman isn't in more big movies. She is an equal to Denzel in the acting chops department. Halle may be more "palatable" to white American tastes (damn, she *is* gorgeous!) but Angie is a looker and can run rings around Halle. No offense to Miss Berry.

Re this film, God knows I love Annette Benning but couldn't Angie have played that role?  I wonder if she was even considered for the film. I don't know how casting agents work...do they round up the usual suspects or do they go strictly by what the role calls for.  Were Jada and Eva's roles supposed to be of color or was it not even specified. These are things I'd like to know.

In an ideal world, we all would get represented fairly and authentically. Unfortunately, we are far from an ideal world. But I suppose it is progress that there has been a film made with an all-women cast. I will support it for that reason. Finally, Hollywood is catering a little bit to women. Perhaps it is not enough to send up fireworks, but at least it's a start.

www.SeekingSaraSummers.com

let me preface this by saying that i was thrilled to see a woman of color in this film.  i am a big fan of the original, but i was very glad to see that the press for this movie was hyping (not hiding) the fact that one of the roles would be cast with jada pinkett-smith.  i like her as an actress.  i think, as a person, she seems to have a lot to say, and she doesn't come off as a stereotypical hollywood wife that only gets work because her husband is a megastar.

now on to business: 

1)  i felt the re-make of the women was flat and lacked the velocity that the original captured.  and (SPOILER ALERT)

2)  i didn't like the way the original 1939 version had the main character leaving a cheating husband and the "update" in 2008 has her forgiving him.  you know something's wrong when 1939 seems like a more progressive time for women on-screen. 

3)  i didn't like the writing in the update.  it seems like they tried to keep the same sort of dialogue, but the delivery was a bit glocky.  almost as if it were being delivered on-stage and after every line...hold for audience response...and continue.  one of the things i loved about the wb show 'gilmore girls' (in the beginning anyway) was they way they all spoke with a sort of 40's movie banter, but did so in an updated, up on their pop culture, of the times kind of way.  this movie missed that by a mile.  

4)  could jada pinkett-smith be more of a peripheral cliche?  let me elucidate:

• i don't like to play the race card, but everyone in this movie clocked more screen time than she did (except maybe eva mendes - thanks for sidelining all the colored girls hollywood!), and by everyone, i mean everyone who was white.
• it's like they looked at the cast (annette bening, meg ryan, debra messing, debi mazar), and said to themselves, "we need to cater to the minorities...what can we do?"  so they got jada in to play the token black girl.  and then decided to also make her the token lesbian.  not just any lesbian, but a skirt chasing, model f***ing, chip on the shoulder, angry lesbian who's afraid of children because if she isn't into men, then obviously we must cleanse the character of any characteristic that would make her just like any "normal" heterosexual woman.  lesbians are gay homosexuals, people!  they don't like babies because their homosexual agenda mandates that they destroy the traditional american family! 
• while we're on the topic of the many stereotypes that jada's character portrays in this film...she's black.  she's a writer that hasn't released a book in several years, so we know that she's lazy.  (SPOILER ALERT) in one scene 'the women' are in saks and jada's character wants a new handbag so she asks annette bening's character (who happens to be her editor) to cash advance her on her next book so she can buy it.  so basically, she's had one best-selling novel, but now has no money and (obviously because she's black) bad credit, so she can't even buy herself a handbag.  AND (SPOILER ALERT) annette bening's character responds with something like, "no, i will not enable you!" leading us to believe that perhaps jada's character has a shopping problem/addiction.  and again teaching us all that ol' miss whitey knows what's best for this misguided colored girl.  jada, can you just take a breath before you set me back 20 years?