The "Watchmen" are here (but not so queer)

Having read Watchmen im glad they left in the details about Silhouette. It is a small but powerful part of the comic. I can't wait to see the movie tonight especially after hearing they are paying attention to the small details. Two minutes can be enough to get across the humanity in the comics. Sihouette's story was covered in only a couple panels of the comic and a couple statements from other characters, and it got the point across just fine without being cheap.

To do with the nude male parts I plan just to close my eyes and cringe.

I read the book beforehand, so I knew there wouldn't be a lot of lesbian content in the movie.  It would've been nice if there were a little more (or even a little more about the Minutemen at all), but considering how insanely faithful the movie was to the source material, I can live with it.

What I cannot live with?  That awkward and unnecessary sex scene.  Seriously, I don't care about Dr. Manhattan and his nudity, nor do I care about any other naked men in the movie, but that scene was just so...ridiculous!   I literally laughed out loud during that.  Whatever happened to the "less is more" rule?

"No problem is insoluble, given a big enough plastic bag."

I got more lesbian content that I was expecting; Silhouette's story wasn't as prominent in the comic as it was in the movie.  (It was mostly just talked about, and used to juxtapose Hooded Justice and Captain Metropolis's relationship and how "immoral" it was perceived at the time.)  I thought the recreation of the victory kiss was beautiful, even if they were both dead on-screen just a couple of seconds later.

Also, the Laurie/Dan stuff was very much like it was in the comic, and I was pleased to see that they kept Doc Manhattan's nudity intact.  The fact that it was a mainstream movie with so much frontal male nudity was amazing to me, and whenever there was female nudity, there was usually male nudity of a kind as well.  It didn't feel gratuitious to me at all, particularly because it was very character-driven.

(One more nitpicky note: It's Watchmen, not The Watchmen.)

Saw it and loved it. I admit, have not read the comics so can't compare it to anything. The movie was much better than I had hoped. Like said it's almost 3 hours and I didn't once feel it was too violent or action-y or anything like that. I enjoyed the somewhat slower pace of it. And the effects, that only is a reason to see this movie :) I didn't think the actual sex scene was ackward, rather nicely down. I liked the shapes and all that, it wasn't that technical looking, I liked the roundness of it if you will. But I did feel akward watching it with bunch of fanboys LOL

Anyway, if someone is undecided, I'd say go and see this. Even just for the cool effects and you'll get to see Malin's boobs if you haven't already ;)

I've read the comic, but haven't seen the film, although I plan to.  I loved the comic; the only aspect I was disappointed about was the presence of a very minor character that was a butch lesbian in the process of breaking up with her gang-member-wannabe girlfriend.  At first I was surprised and happy to see the woman sporadically shown throughout the story, but I was very disappointed when, at the climax of the comic, she regressed to beating her girlfriend up on the street after having an argument with her.

I understand how her actions tie in with the comic's overall theme of the crisis of human violence, but...still. A butch lesbian committing graphic partner-abuse in view of everyone around them? Call it hyper-sensitivity, but I can't help but pick up the small message of women not being able to handle masculinity, less they resort to the unfortunate traits of being violent and aggressive. With the minimal representations of gays and lesbians in the comic, Moore could have done with using one of the only representations in this fashion and I'm happy that it seems to have not made it into the film. 

Despite this kidney punch to butch lesbians, it is a great comic book with great social impliciations that I'd  recommend to everyone.

and I'm PAINFULLY excited for the movie tonight. I'm even rocking my Who Watches The Watchmen tshirt from NYCC just for the day (I plan on wearing it more often than today but I'm sayin...)

Trish, no offense, I think you might be focusing too much on the lack of lesbian in Watchmen and less on the fact that out of the Crimebusters squad to help or even listen to Roschach, Silk Spectre is the only FEMALE left. Atleast she was included and in the book itself, writer Allan Moore dealt with the complexity of being a woman in a masks world. She's a second generation mask (her mother was the original SS) and she is reluctant to even accept that mantle. I won't ruin it in case you plan to read it but the novel goes through great pains to paint a realistic enough world where homophobia, bigotry (there's even a lesbian cabbie who fights with her girlfriend if you're interested in that) and gender roles exist within the context of a 'superhero movie'.

Essentially, Watchmen stands as an allegory for the mistakes we can all make and the lessons yet to be learned as well as the things we can hope to change.

Call me a nerd but don't look TOO far between the lines, you'll miss the panel. 

and I don't mind big blue doc, he shuns pants in the book. 

in the event of a zombie attack, shove the person closest to you in the direction of said zombie, increasing your personal odds of survival.

In some ways I appreciate that Silhouette is still in the movie, but I really don't want to see two women kiss and a few seconds later see them murdered in bed for being lovers. I just don't want to see it--particularly when it's a few seconds within a very mainstream film that's aimed at a very male market.

Although it does sounds like the film has been (relatively) faithful to the story as told in the comic books, where Silhouette is only mentioned offhand and has, I think, only one line of dialogue. The other two, more prominent female characters are really pretty flat. Alan Moore did better by us in V for Vendetta. 

I'm probably going to curl up with the book tonight and skip the movie--the reviews haven't impressed me.

Firstly, I haven't read the GN, so I'm sure that affects my opinion of the film. However, I thought it was waaay too long, too convoluted (they could have used some harsh editing to get rid of a lot of superfluous scenes) and the characters were dull as boards. I didn't care who lived, died and hooked up because I found them all ridiculously boring. None of them had even an inch of personality.

I know a lot of people really liked it - but I guess I was hoping for another 300, and was very disappointed.

I really enjoyed the film. Visually, it felt really spot on, and the music enhanced the atmosphere suitable (although seemed oddly loud compared to the rest of the sound.)

I wasn't actually expecting to see Silhouette that much, and as other readers have said, I really enjoyed the kiss. The opening in general, was just fantastic and it felt so satisfying to see all the Minutemen brought to life, moreso than the Crimebusters.

Of course I'm a bit miffed about omission of the space squid, but it made it more accessible, which isn't a bad thing. Overall the film made certain aspects of the comic clearer and easier to understand (I felt the art wasn't amazingly clear in the comics, but I've yet to see the redone Absolute edition, so my full opinion is pending).

Perhaps there will be more content with the DVD release, as a documentary of Hollis's book 'Under The Hood' will be included. Although that might just feature Silhouette's death like the novel.

But yes, overall, I really would recommend giving this film a chance. I preferred it to The Dark Knight.

I left the theater feeling pretty conflicted. I'm not outraged/crush/horrified the way people were after, say, Spider-Man 3. But I'm not thrilled either. I guess the closet description would be "underwhelmed." Visually, I have almost no complaints, except that I still think the guy playing Ozymandias is way too skinny. And Giant Blue CGI Penis, while somewhat disturbing, was expected.

The only sequence when I was really like, "WTF, really??" was when Dan and Laurie were doing the nasty to that "Hallelujah" song. Zach Snyder is definitely a fan of the uncomfortably long and graphic sex scene set to weird musical choices (see: 300). And I disagreed with some of Snyder's choices regarding what to cut (why did he skip the murder of Hollis Mason? Kind of a big deal). I also wish he had stuck to the original storyline for Rorschach's investigation of the Roche kidnapping. It seems like in that scene, as in a few others, Snyder was more interested in making the violence as gory and graphic as possible, rather than capturing the point of the violence. Setting fire to the house while giving the murderer the choice of burning to death or cutting off his own hand was I think so much more indicative of Rorschach's attitudes toward life and morality, as opposed to just freaking out and cleaving the guy in the head.

I'm also really not sold on the new ending. Yes, I understand that a giant alien squid falling from the sky might look a little ridiculous on the screen, but having the blame for the 15 million (quite an increase from Moore's 3 million) deaths land on Doc Manhattan? It just doesn't logically lead to the same result (world peace, or at least temporary ceasefire). In the novel, the squid was an alien, an outside threat that the Earth needed to unite against. Manhattan is not an outside threat, he is a very American threat, the ultimate US weapon. I would think blaming Doc would just result in the rest of the world hating America even more, not them wanting to be buddy-buddy.

All in all, I'm glad the movie was made and it could have been a lot worse...but it also could have been better. I feel like so much of the deep character study and philosophy that makes Watchmen such an amazing work was lost to big budget special effects. A review I read in the Boston Globe I think says it best:

The director has done something commercially feasible and artistically depressing. He has turned a brilliant graphic novel back into a comic book.

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Stewie: Listen, why don't you save yourself years of sexual ambiguity and get fitted for a pair of Doc Martens and a plaid flannel shirt?

the silhouette story line is really small in the novel, so i wasnt really expecting it to make it to the movie (though if it hadnt, im sure some AE'ers would be complaining). that being said, i enjoyed the novel and am very much looking forward to the film.

my reservations - and theyve been somewhat confirmed by the nytimes' review - is that the novel is really freaking talky and complicated. that makes it really hard to translate to film, and im interested in seeing how they do it, but worried that by trying too hard to stay true to the novel, it might be both hard to follow (like the book often) and much bleaker than a lot of moviegoers will expect. as for the dan / laurie sex scene - it was totally awkward in the novel, too. as for the movie - AO Scott's hilarious (and fitting) comment leads me to believe they didnt stray far from the text on this one, either:

Speaking of acts of congress, “Watchmen” features this year’s hands-down winner of the bad movie sex award, superhero division: a moment of bliss that takes place on board Nite Owl’s nifty little airship, accompanied by Leonard Cohen’s “Hallelujah.” (By the way, can we please have a moratorium on the use of this song in movies? Yes, I too have heard there was a secret chord that David played, and blah blah blah, but I don’t want to hear it again. Do you?)

so true, right?

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http://rightmindleftcoast.wordpress.com

I'm so friggin excited!!!!

the fact that she is in this, and they gave her a longer part in the film then in the novel makes me love this even more. Snyder said that he had to leave a couple of things out due to length... so it's really shows alot to leave that in.

*** Watchmen fans: If this film does well during it's run, they will release the directors cut (LONGER, BETTER) in theaters and Imax during the summer!!!!!!!! So go see the friggin film.

Since Snyder announced at ComicCon that this movie was being made I was super excited.  I've been waiting close to two years for the release of this film.  TWO YEARS.  It was so FRIGGIN' disappointing!

Yes, I was able to overlook some aspect of Rohrshach's past.  Sure.  Of course I could forget certain things about ... shoot A LOT but I COULD NOT FOR THE LOVE OF GOD FORGIVE THE ENDING!!!!!  WTF was that???  

Plus, I can't believe they didn't even bother to call Laurie Juspeczyk by her real Polish name.  Laurie Jupiter????  Uh uh.  

I won't go into detail about what ruined it for me about this movie and at which point I slapped my own face, but feel free to email me.  UGH

That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

I adored it.  Really, there's so much to analyze, and I can't wait to rewatch it so I can actually catch all of it.

For those of you who may say that there wasn't enough background info, you just wait for the insanely long directors cut.

My biggest complaint... soundtrack. Some good songs, but horrible placement. 

I knew that there was going to be a lesbian character in Watchmen; I just didn't know for how long. I enjoyed the V-J Day kiss, but also didn't appreciate seeing her and her girlfriend dead only minutes (or seconds?) later. But from the comments I've read here, at least she was included.

When I heard the first chord of "Hallelujah," I knew what it was immediately and thought "why the hell are they using this song for a sex scene"? I didn't mind the scene at first...until it kept continuing. 

I was surprised (and slightly disturbed) at the nudity of Dr. Manhattan, but eventually, I got used to it since it was so consistent on screen.

Also, something I just realized. Adrian Veldt / Ozymandias is Matthew Goode, aka Heck in Imagine Me and You. Would not have guessed that he was the same actor from his role in Watchmen!

I enjoyed it for the most part. Yeah, it was really violent and disturbing at times, but still good. I also enjoyed the political/philosophical aspects of it and the character development. I want to read the graphic novel now. 

There was actually more lesbian "action" than I was expecting.  I knew they cut Joey's (the Cabby) storyline, and I didn't expect them to throw in the V-J Day Kiss.  I'm so glad I stayed unspoiled on that, because it was fantastic. it was, as was mentioned above, a great piece of image subeversion.  And the fact that she stayed with the nurse afterwards was a nice touch.  Yeah, they met a bad end but... so did every one from that era (with the exception of Sally, sort of).  It was part of the greater point Moore was trying to make in a then vs. now way (in my opinion).

As for Doctor Manhattan's penis... whatever.  The guy isn't human anymore, why does he care if he's wearing clothes?  To have him in clothes would have been strange and out of place, and not only because I've read the novel, but because of the way the established his character.  Good for Snyder for not backing down on something that apparently strikes fear and loathing into men and women alike.

The sex scene was definitely akward, and it felt more akward than the one in the book.  I'm not sure why (besides the weird choice of music).  But I still think it worked in the story, even if it was a bit long.

But, again, all of this is sort of through the lens of a big fan of the novel.  My friend that I went with had never read the novel and still enjoyed the movie, so I took that as a good sign.  I have yet to decide if I appreciate it more for knowing the backgrounds we didn't get, or less because I know what wasn't there.  

i just watched it today, i think it's pretty awesome, apart from the fact that there are far too much blue pps.  Oh also the sex scene is pretty graphical, i liked it...

The scene of Silhouette kissing the nurse was a wonderful device for setting Watchmen in an alternate universe. The scene is a take on Eisenstaedt’'s   photo,The Kiss, which was shot in Times Square in 1945 after the surrender of the Japanese.It is one of the most iconic photos of WW II and was even the cover of time magazine later.

The wikipedia article on this is at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%E2%80%93J_day_in_Times_Square

By having Silhouette kiss the nurse, it established her lesbianism in a beautifully romantic way while providing those of us who recognize the scene an inside joke as well.  In fact the entire title sequence of which this was a part was worth the price of admission for me . it was loaded with slighty skewed references to the entire period of my youth.

It  was historically accurate that Silhouette's lesbianism would be seen as unacceptable to many of the Watchmen in 1985, particularly the more conservative such as Rorschach and theComedian. It was a difficult time to be gay and apparently no different in Alan Moore's alternate 1985. You sort of had to be there.

When the original novel was published in 1986, Silhouette's homosexuality was very controversial in a comic book. It is still somewhat rare, but there are many more gay characters and super-heroes in today's comics and graphic novels. 

Regards

Bi

Not having been familiar with the comic book, I went into the movie theatre expecting another crappy marvel-esque film similar to the tragedies (in my opinion) of Fantastic Four or Hulk. What the hell, I thought. I was out with my Dad for some father/daughter bonding and it was buy one ticket, get one free at the theatre.

What I was not expecting was a deep, involved plot that makes itself clear and apparent in the first moments of the incredible opening credits. Utilising almost every anti-war song I can think of in the initial half hour, it immediately instilled my fellow movie-goers with the seriousness of what we were about to witness. 

I would agree with Trish as to her male-pleasing hypothesis in regards to Silhouette's lesbianism but only because it came as a complete surprise. Quite literally I was sitting in the cinema and all of a sudden Silhouette in slow motion walks up next to this chick and starts pashing her. I didn't expect it so I was a little taken aback although that reaction may have been purely because of the harsh, dominatrix appearance of Silhouette's costume.

Apart from this EXTREMELY MINOR MINOR INFINETISMAL moment in the film - barely three appearances altogether - the only relevance it has to the film in terms of 'lesbian content' is that it is a step in the story. Nothing more. 'Super' heroes were being killed and Silhouette was one of them. Her method of death is no more interesting or meaningful than Mothman's insanity and admission to an asylum, or Captain Metropolis' murder, or even Silk Spectre's retirement.

I would therefore say that this movie, when you take it in as a whole, is a brilliant analysis of justice versus revenge, sacrifice versus preservation of life, peace versus war and whether it should be up to a few to decide for many? It is not an attack on our 'way of life' or image or whatever you want to call it. All things in context people. All things in context. It shouldn't mean more to you than the images in Se7en's murder scenes.

I personally adored the film, which showed all the grittyness and irony of human existence in it's rich, poor, deranged and loving aspects. Sex and murder are shown in almost (but not quite) equal parts (as these are said to be the only real pleasures left to humanity - debatable.) and the quality of filming, art direction, costuming, acting and dialogue are nigh on spectacular.

Although in retrospect, a nice Ken-like rounding of Dr Manhattan's manliness would have been appreciated. 

:P 

I enjoyed this film TO THE MAX!

Especially the  focus on Dr Manhattans penis, it was like a pendulum. Haha had me in stitches. Childish, yes. 

And the sex scene, was just awful! It has RUINED Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah for me!

People need to realise that Alan Moore didn't write any scene involving Silouette kissing another woman. That was totally the input of Dave Gibbons, the artist and all he was trying to do was, cheekily, reference the famous V J-Day image of the sailor kissing a nurse. Got nothing to do with any special victory for Silouette - that's just some fluff from an actress with more ego than sense. As a character, Silouette doesn't require more screen time than she's given. She just isn't that important. Her only real contribution to the narrative comes via her death which, along with that of other characters, illustrates how truly mortal the group is. 

As for the film, I was disappointed - although I never really felt that wasn't going to be the case. Watchmen is a graphic NOVEL and, as such, the written word has primacy. A film dilutes a lot of the gravity of those words, something which was most apparent with the character of Dr.Manhatten. Billy Crudup just didn't have the right tone of world-weariness and detatchment. His voice - a surprisingly squeaky and high pitched effort- just wasn't suitable for the most powerful being in the known universe. Morgan Freeman crossed with HAL from 2001 would have been far closer to the mark.

Ultimately, the film was just as good as 'X-Men' which should please the masses. However, for those of us who recognise that 'Watchmen', the graphic novel, is a work of considerable depth and dexterity and not simply a light-weight comic book, there won't be any repeat viewings. Fortunately we've got the graphic novel and, at a pinch, the animated 12-part series (all voices by one person, shot in one-dimension but infinitely better than the film). 

OMG - that kiss/scene was REALLY-REALLY-REALLY-REALLY HOT!  I couldn't believe it when they showed it - totally unexpected.  In fact I cheered after it was shown.  And the fact that it was in slow motion really added to it.

LOVED IT!!!!!